Was Shogun vs. Hendo a Draw? Dana Says Yes

November 21, 2011
Comments off

How did you score the UFC 139 main event between Dan Henderson and Mauricio “Shogun” Rua?

The cage-side judges at the HP Pavilion in San Jose, Calif., on Saturday scored the bout 48-47 for Henderson by unanimous decision on all three judges’ official scorecards. But UFC president Dana White saw the five-round instant classic as a draw.

“I thought it was a draw,” White told MMAWeekly.com following the event.

“This is one of those tough fights. In the first round, they both knocked each other down. You give Henderson the first three rounds. You give Shogun (round) four and 10-8 in the last round for a dominant round. It’s a draw,” he explained. “It’s one of those tough ones. That’s how I scored it. I scored it a draw.

“I don’t consider myself a professional judge, but I had the fight a draw.”

Henderson hurt Rua with a punch in the early going and the Brazilian was forced into survival mode after being knocked down. As White pointed out, each scored a knockdown in the first round. Rua recovered and finished strong, but Henderson’s early onslaught gave him the first stanza on the scorecards.

“I honestly didn’t think it was going to make it out of the first round. It thought Henderson was going to finish him in the first round and Shogun showed amazing recovery, amazing heart,” said White.

Henderson got the better of the exchanges in the second round, but it was a competitive five minutes with neither doing substantial damage. In the third, Rua looked to be finding his range but ate a Henderson right hand that sent him crashing to the canvas 90-seconds into the round.

Henderson swooped in and tried to finish, but was unable to put Rua away. Rua went to his submission skills and isolated one of Henderson’s legs. It was enough to fend off the barrage of punches, but Henderson quickly escaped the submission attempt. Rua secured a takedown and proceeded to land left hands in rapid fire. Henderson, again, did damage early and looked to be on the verge of finishing, but Rua came back in the closing minutes.

Rua came to life in round four, taking Henderson down early. Henderson had his moments in the middle portion of the round, but the final two minutes were all Rua. Fatigue set in for Henderson and Rua took advantage. He began to land power punches and secured a takedown late in the round and mounted Henderson. The round ended with Henderson reversing Rua to obtain top position, but Rua had won the his first segment of the five-round affair.

Leaving their corners for the final round, Rua was clearly the more conditioned athlete. Henderson was bent over breathing heavy and his corner advised him to clinch and not exchange in the closing round. He wouldn’t have the opportunity to. Rua secured an early takedown and spent the next four and a half minutes mounting the former two-division Pride champion several times and laying down ground and pound.

After being on the verge of being finished in the opening rounds, Rua logged the most dominant round of the fight in the fifth. Many scored the round 10-8 for Rua, including MMAWeekly’s play-by-play.

“(Rua) was hurt so many times in that fight and then comes back and wins the last two rounds, and in my opinion wins the last round 10-8,” said the UFC president.

That would mark the fight a draw on the UFC pres’ scorecard. But in any event, nearly all agree, Shogun vs. Henderson was an instant classic, rivaling the likes of the Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar slugfest at the TUF 1 Finale.

How did you score Shogun vs. Henderson?

Follow @JeffMMAWeekly on Twitter or e-mail Jeff Cain.
For more
UFC News and UFC Rumors, follow MMAWeekly.com on Twitter and Facebook.

  • therealmo

    last round should have been a draw

    • emoney911

      i had it at a draw too

      • i think dan won it because i dont think the lastround was a 10-8, cause it al started of when dan to rua down and got reversed becuase you also have to remember in the first 3 rounds rua was droped in every round.

    • Nope Hendo won it! Dana was being nice to Shogun ….he was busted up and he …won the 5th round …but that was it!
      Hendo Vs. Jones!
      Chael vs. Silva

  • Mario

    Nah, I totally disagree with the people who are saying – “it should have been a draw”

    Hendo beat his ass.

    That was the difference.

    Dan won, end of story.

    • Cptmats

      Thank god your not a judge !

      Pretty clear it was a draw !

      • RubeKegal

        draw my cornhole.

      • MrAdidas

        I actually concur with your comment! Rube if that fight was NOT a draw, then I dont know what fight could be considered a draw! 1st, 2nd & 3rd Rounds to Henderson – Rua won thee 4th & definately won the 5th Round 10-8, so how is this not a draw? Maybe you should use a calculator, because I have it 47-47. How was the 5th Round not a 10-8, can someone please explain to me why judges who are paid to know this (crap), not know this (crap)?!? Hendo could have made a matress info-mercial in the 5th Round, thats how long he was on his back – barely surviving BUT no 10-8 round. LOL okay whatever you say!

        • RubeKegal

          Adidas answer me this… Did you score the 3rd round 10-8 for Hendo?

          • Cptmats

            No ! Because he did not dominated start to finish ! Damage isn’t everything !

    • wonggfan

      Dana has this thing with his boy Shogun, his most prized PRIDE acquisition. He has always been a bit dismissive of Hendo. Examples: When Hendo KOed Wandy, Dana made a disparaging statement about Wandy losing to a middle weight. When Shields defeated Hendo, Dana made yet another disparaging statements about Hendo being outclassed by a smaller opponent.

      Of course there was a lot of business reasons in making thoses statements. Hendo vs Wandy totally killed the importance of Wandy vs Chuck. He was also courting Jake Shields at that time.

      But the bottom line is this. Hendo, as of late, has looked SUPER impressive. To be honest, I dismissed him as being too small to compete at 205. But he just knocked out Fedor and destroyed Shogun, two fighters that are naturally bigger, more decorated, and higher ranked than him.

      Hendo did enough in rounds 1~3 to win the fight. He put Shogun through a meat grinder in those rounds.

      • Black Belt

        “Hendo, as of late, has looked SUPER impressive.” When will the fantasy end for you?

        • RubeKegal

          If Shogun gets a 10-8 round for the 5th round, then Hendo should get a 10-6 round for the 3rd round. Shogun nuthuggery is at an all time high and it’s pathetic.

          • kjs69724

            dude it’s a 10-8 round when you are on the ground mounted and getting gnp’ed the entire round it was complete domination!!! Hendo dominated in round 1 and took a decline up until the third, although he won all three! But point wise is what mattered and shogun in fact did enough to earn a draw!

          • skiman

            Did you even watch the fight RubeKegal?

            You have no idea what your talking about

        • RubeKegal

          Being a black belt doesn’t make your opinion superior, but rather more times than not biased towards the BJJ guy. Hendo won this fight, get over it.

          • wonggfan

            Ignore him. He has been stalking me for the last few weeks just to annoy me.

            I think I said something that ticked him off. He has been leaving deprecating remarks.

            The funny thing is that I didn’t even report this dude. But, the site moderator deleted his comments.

            I think it’s the first time the moderator deleted someone’s comment.

        • wonggfan

          The day that you get your college degree.

          Have you signed up for spring semester at your local community college yet?

          Serious question. How come you are 29 and still don’t have a college degree? What have you been doing in the mean that?

          • Black Belt 2

            “What have you been doing in the mean that?” Is that English? Is that what your college degree taught you? Again, what a tool!

            Shogun lost the fight, and it matters very little beyond that. Get over it already!

  • longtime fan

    I immediatly said it was a draw after the fight had ended before i ever heard anyone elses opinion. Dan definitly won rounds 1-3, and shogun definitly won rounds 4 and 5. And by the definition of a 10-8 round, shogun won that last round 10-8.
    with all that being said, i thought dan won the fight as an overall fight, but in the streets, if there were no final round, then shogun looked to be the victor. I call it a draw.

    • RubeKegal

      If this were the streets? Spoken like a true fan defending his boy. Shogun got obliterated in the first 3 rounds and any of those rounds can be a “10-8”

      3 Professional judges saw it 48-47 for Hendo UNANIMOUSLY. End of discussion. Dana’s not a judge and he shouldn’t try to score fights because he is terrible at it.

      • MrAdidas

        Well in that case if the 3 “professional judges” saw it 48-47 Hendo, then it has to be 100% right, right?!? Give me a break dude, are you telling me the JUDGES get it right ALL the time, because they are pro judges?!? HELL NO! If anything MMA judges are the absolute WORST, because of the lack of consistency. I guess Shields really beat Kampamnn, Lyoto DID NOT beat Rua in their 1st fight, but the “pro judges” say Lyoto was victor = JOKE! Diego “lost” to Kampmann, yet the judges gave the W to Diego, & lets not forget Antônio Rogério Nogueira Vs Jason Brilz – where Brilz clearly won that fight hands down, yet the “professional judges” gave the fight to the name they knew. Just because they are “pro judges” does’nt mean a whole lot to anyone, well besides you.

        • RubeKegal

          Thats right Adidas. They are professional judges and you are not. Stop gripping Shogun’s balls so hard, he’s losing oxygen. Calling this fight a draw is a joke. And answer me this, If Shogun deserves a “10-8” round for the 5th, how does Hendo not get a 10-7 or 10-6 for the 3rd?

        • MuayThaiFood

          Furthermore, if “Pro Judges” were infallible then they would only need one and split decisions would never happen.

    • RubeKegal

      also if this were “the streets”, Shogun would be dead at the hands of Bones Jones.

  • sc_71a9ca5931d1e0e0313de3bc3476aef4

    judges have awarded 10-9 round for fighters doin nothing but holding their opponents against the cage (see Couture vrs Vera). Shogun spent 80% of the round mounted with hendo occasionally hip escaping into half guard while getting punched only to be immiediatly mounted again. Shogun worked for an arm triangle and landed punches elbows and hammer fists fo the entire round to recieve a 10-9. if it was GSP or Matt Hughs they would have recieved a 10-8. The message sent to fighters is lay and pray. Shogun got jobbed to extend Hendos Career slightly

  • KBEsq

    I think people want this fight to be a draw on an emotional level rather than a realistic level. I wanted this fight to be a draw at the end because it was such a great battle. However, I cannot stop thinking that Hendo totally won this fight. He certainly would have won under Pride judging, which judged the fight as a whole.

    I really think this 10-8 business for Shogun is unwarranted in the fifth. I really think that Shogun was able to dominate Hendo in the fifth, not because of superior skill, but because Hendo was out of gas. Now that alone, I acknowledge, doesn’t matter as far as scoring is concerned. However, I think that because they were both so out of gas, Shogun didn’t really damage Hendo in the fifth like Hendo damaged Shogun earlier in the fight. Plus, I think you can say conversely that Hendo beat Shogun in the first three rounds with skill and did a huge amount of damage without the aid of Shogun being completely gassed.

    • J-Mac

      I agree with KBEsq who is one of the few here who is actually thinking logically about this. If Rua had truly dominated Henderson in the 5th you would expect there to be some physical evidence of that on Dan’s face at least, but there really wasn’t.

      If you give Rua a 10-8 for laying on Henderson in the 5th and hitting him with a couple of wet noodles, you MUST give Henderson a 10-8 for round 3 when he did so much damage to Rua that his face looked like a Hallowe’en mask at the end of it.

      • KBEsq

        Thanks for the compliment =)

      • MrAdidas

        I wasnt aware that in the UFC there’s a rule that states, according to your logic of course….. that there has to be some physical evidence to make a round 10-8, thats funny b\c I’ve never heard of that b4, I thought a 10-8 round is considered when you cmpletely dominate your oponent, regardless of the physical state of his face. Hendo was on his back for almost the entire 5 mins & mounted how many times 4-6 diff times Rua had Hendo mounted, yet because there was barely any marks on Henderson’s face it should not be a 10-8 round?!? That has to be the DUMBEST thing I’ve ever heard. GSP got how many 10-8 VS Hardy?!? Rest my case, thanks for trying!

        Is it not true that if you cannot defend your self, regardless of the type of strikes you are taking, if you cannot defend form slaps to the face, the ref will stop the fight?!? So how does your stupid logic of “there should be some physical marks on his face for it to be a 10-8 round” make any sense?!? BJ Penn (except the Diaz fight) would barely ever get cut, look at the beating GSP gave Penn & barely any marks on his face, yet BJ almost died from the beat down GSPP gave him, but his face was barely bruised. You talk abou logic, yet you have NONE!

        ATTENTION: It’s logic that if a persons face is NOT bruised or physicaly damaged, then a 10-8 round is NOT possible. Talk about STUPIDITY @ it’s best!

        • KBEsq

          Umm, I never said anything about marks on people’s faces. and my logic had nothing to do with that. I think if I could sum up what I said into a sentence or two, it would be that you don’t deserve a 10-8 because you were able to mount someone who can barely move or breathe, and basically let the gravitational pull of your arms fall on that person a few times.

          That logic doesn’t seem stupid to me at at all. Just mounting someone isn’t domination per se.

          • RubeKegal

            don’t pay attention to him KBE, he is a moron who wanted Shogun to win. Every time Shogun loses, I will be on here sticking it in their faces. These same people probably think Shogun beat Bones Jones.

    • Cptmats

      Bad logic, if this fight was judge as whole like in pride than it wouldnt even be a draw it would be a Shogun win ! Seeing how he was all but finished when the fight ended. Hendo would have gotten finished if this fight went another round !

      • RubeKegal

        Now Shogun should have won? Get off the drugs cptmats….it’s clear you are here to promote your boy who got smashed. deal with it!!

        • Cptmats

          **** are you ever stupid ! “My boy” i dont even like him. Sound more like your pissed that “your boy” had the fight on a silver platter and couldn’t finish the job !

          Deal with it !

          • RubeKegal

            Hendo won end of story, DEAL WITH IT!

  • MikeMc1983

    I know I fall victim to judging damage done by the look of a fighters face as well, but it’s not really right to do. The problem is that people cut, and swell differently. There are a few guys out there that don’t seem to cut, and bleed much even when taking a lot of damage. Others get popped by a jab, and bleed like they’ve been hit by a Mack truck. I heard an interview with “stitch” that talked for awhile about this topic. Some guys you know just get cut.
    Now I’m not saying that shogun is a “bleeder,” but I do recognize that looking at surface damage done isn’t always the best indicator of who won the fight.

    When the fight was over I remember thinking that they were going to score it a draw, and both fighters would be pissed. That’s not to say that I thought it was a draw. It’s just what I thought the judges would do.
    The fight could have fairly been scored a draw, or it could have been scored like it was for hendo. It would have been tough to give it to shogan. So if the score was wrong, it wasn’t obsurdly so.
    You could ask this question though. If shoguns rd 5 wasn’t a 10-8, what constitutes a 10-8 round?

  • BlackDog2009

    IT WAS NOT A DRAW!!! Far from it. Hendo beat the living crap out of Rua for the first three rounds, where Rua basically just survived.

    Fourth round Hendo lost his step a bit and Rua did a bit better, but by that time he was also tired and survived once more by pushing Hendo to the fence. Yeah he landed some shots but he never had Hendo in any danger.

    Fifth round, them two were dying of exhaustion. Rua seemed dominant because he spent mostly on top but he didn’t do damage, and Hendo got out from under several times. Bottom line that was the round where Rua needed to finish Hendo with a submission or something but he did not do it.

    Hendo won, no question about it. There was never any draw! You can’t get you asss kicked for three consecutive rounds out of five and claim a draw. Nah ah.

  • bajafox

    I also thought it should have been a draw but I wasn’t surprised at all when they announced Hendo the winner. To me, he did edge out the first 3 rounds over Rua

  • If even Dana White thinks it was a draw then Hendo cant get a title fight without one more contender match. People dont get to fight for belts coming off of draws.

    • wonggfan

      Dana doesn’t want to deal with Hendo. He wants to retire him.

  • MMAWeekly Staff

    Some interesting comments. Kinda on the fence with this one which is why a draw gets a little traction for me. But then again Hendo did do most of the damage.

  • hell no dan won that fight he won the 123 n maybe the 4 to…….

    • Cptmats

      lol you should watch the fight before you comment !

  • ledner62

    definitely should have been a draw – i hope shogun vs hendo II comes soon. i like shogun, but he can be a slow starter. deadly fight, man.

    • wonggfan

      Yeah, what’s up with him these days. He is so inconsistent. From the way he destroyed Forrest, he should have blasted through Hendo.

      And Hendo, like I said, has been looking SUPER impressive as of late. He wasn’t the best fighter in PRIDE. And he had to cut weight because he couldn’t compete against the big boys in PRIDE. Then he knocks down Wandy. Then comes to the UFC and knocks down Bisping. Now he has turned into a knock out artist. WTF?

      • MrAdidas

        Wooooo – Just because Rua destroyed an overrated Forrest, why should he have destroyed Henderson?!? How you can even think about comparing Forrest Vs Henderson is confusing! Not even close dude! If I think the way you do, that would mean Hendo KO’d Fedor (a much bigger fighter & at one time many morons… I mean people considered Fedor the #1 P4P fighter) doesnt that mean Hendo should have finished Rua easily? let’s not forget that Hendo is\was the Strikeforce LHW Champ. According to your logic, Hendo should have DESTROYED Rua because of his last fights.

        • Cptmats

          Agreed Hendo is a beast Forrest is a joke. To compare the two is just stupid !

          • wonggfan

            Not stupid at all. I never compared them stylistically.

            Just two years ago when Forrest was on top of his game (or everyone thought he was), no one would have said Hendo (a 185lber) should be ranked higher than Hendo.

            Just few months ago Forrest was ranked higher than Hendo.

            I think some of you are forgetting Hendo’s PRIDE performances. He was good but never a top dog in PRIDE. And because of that (and the fact that he is getting older) I’ve been counting him out.

  • RubeKegal

    Some people here have a tight kung fu grip on Shogun’s testes. Like I said before, if Shogun gets 10-8 for 5th, then Hendo gets 10-6 for 3rd. Someone in here put it well saying Shogun looked like he was wearing a Halloween mask at the end of the 3rd.

    Dana is not a judge and for good reason. This is the same man that thinks Rampage beat Machida.

    • wonggfan

      I can’t believe Dana’s comments have stirred up this much controversy. Had Dana agreed with the decision, I believe 1/2 of above posters would say Hendo won.

      Hendo put Shogun through a meat grinder in rounds 1~3. Shogun was too tired to do anything effective rounds 4 and 5. Getting full mount and throwing girly punches (sorry Shogun) is not the same thing as completely destroying someone’s face.



  • It was obviously a draw, shogun could of stole the first round with the knockdown, round 2 was close and round 3 was close besides the near finish, a near finish does not make a round a 10-8 round, round 4 was all shogun and round 5 was one of the most dominant rounds ive seen, hendo is one of my hero’s but the fight was clearly a draw.

    • RubeKegal

      LOL at eliskinner!!!! This guy could be the biggest douche out there. “shogun could of stole the first round with the knockdown”??? If Shoguun won the 1st round, then Rich Franklin stole the 1st round against Anderson Silva.

  • Round 5 shogun landed 79 strikes to hendo’s 4, he obtained the mounted position 6 times and spent over 4 and a half minutes on top of henderson pounding him, if thats not a 10-8 i have no idea what is.

    • RubeKegal

      well 78 of those 79 strikes were pitter pat James Thompson hitting Kimbo strikes. Shogun looked like he had a Halloween mask on after Round 3. NUTHUGGER!

      God damn, people can’t think for themselves. As soon as Dana says it, people conjur up these absurd ways to argue so they can agree with him.

      • Muddyws

        You view just the Highlights of the fight?

  • I lean towards the idea of it being a draw but saying Shogun got the mount 6 times doesnt help that case. That means he lost it 5 times, i.e. Henderson was defending in some capacity that could justify the 10-9. Obviously not defending very well though lol

  • joekeiger

    Everybody yacking about a 10-8 5th rd for Shogun need to remermber the first three rounds! The ref was close to stepping in more than once.A very strong case could be made that Henderson deserved two 10-8 rds. He beat the (crap) outta shogun in the first three rounds. I had Hendersoin winning by 2 points, 3 to 2 with both recieving a 10-8 rd. It was an epic fight and It sucks to see either of them lose considering the quality of the fight, But, Henderson won and thats the bottom line.

  • joekeiger

    excuse me, I hasd the 4th round pretty close to even and I gave henderson 2 10-8 rds.

  • Mma weekly should take some responsibility for starting all this crap too. They printed an article about Dana and censered a lot of what he said. Dana also said after he had it a draw, ‘who the hell am I ‘. He is nothing more than a fan as far as scoring goes. I don’t like when someone’s words are taken out of context. Dan won and let’s just move on to the next fight. By the way, I thought Ali beat Ken Norton in their first fight !

    • This is true, Dana is just a fan when it comes to scoring the fights. He’s also a fan with a lot of insider knowledge and experience, and most other fans tend to put a lot of stock in what he says. No more, no less.

    • wonggfan

      Adding “who the hell am I” after a 5 minute declaration of wrong judging is supposed to make the entire statement less serious?

  • longtime fan

    wow rubekegal, you expressed enough ignorance that your opinions are jokes! lol, but since your allowed then go ahead, but you sound stupid. If it were streets then alot would not go down the way it does in alot of mma fights, but the subject at hand is shogun vs dan. cardio was on shoguns side and he survived the initial onslaught, therefore the final round and beyond would have went to shogun. not saying dan didnt win this ufc fight. shoguns fifth round was clearly what a 10-8 round is, but not rounds 1-3 for dan, shogun had moments in each of those round moron.

    • RubeKegal

      longtime fan, get your head out of your anus toughguy. The final round went to Shogun, but who are you to say beyond would have gone to him as well? UFC fights are 5 round fights, Shogun lost this fight, plain and simple. Round 3 Shogun had Dan in a potential heel hook for all of 6 seconds. He got obliterated the rest of the round. You have some white substance on your chin. Oh there is Shogun pulling his pants up. Clearly youre a longtime fan with little knowledge.

  • Come on guys, this is definitely a topic for great debate, but let’s keep it about the fight and the arguments about the decision not about slamming each other. You may not agree with someone’s opinion or their knowledge behind it, but it doesn’t have to come to personal attacks. If someone’s logic is faulty, back up why with facts… no need to attack each other.

    • BigGuy

      This entire forum has become one big argument lately!

      • I honestly don’t mind the arguing. Great debates bring about a lot of great thought. Let’s just keep it to debating and arguing, not childish name calling and bashing.

  • sb

    Shut up BigGuy, lol naa I’m just kidding brother. Your right, it has, but its great that there’s spirited debate going on here. It means we give a ****. I do think some of you should do what Kens says and show some class and formulate your positions without slinging mud at one another. We all have something in common. Although we may disagree with one another I’m willing to bet that if we all were at a bar or pub for the UK lads, we would probably be amped up yelling at the tv and throwing a couple cold ones down.

    • BigGuy

      @ sb! I agree with your comments (except the part where you tell me to shut up…LOL!!!!)

  • RubeKegal

    48-47 HENDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • philipzenn

    I kinda like that Dana voiced his opinion. I know it’s not fair, but I gave Hendo a slight edge in this one just for smashing Bisping’s face! Hope Mayhem does the same!

  • philipzenn

    Sort of a carry-over bonus 🙂

  • Why is it every time ShoGun fights and loses, he got robbed? If he would have won the fight, there would n’t have been any problem, but when he loses, he has to say he won or it was a draw. Well, he isn’t the judge. No, he is the fighter, so he should have fought and won, instead of losing the fight only to complain about it. Of course, Dana (Shogun’s right hand advocate) has to feed into Shogun’s ear and say it was a draw. He couldn’t tell him he won, though. Hendo beat him and the last round was not 10-8, was it? Never leave it in the hands of the judges. We all know that, so stop whining. “I want revenge.”

  • RubeKegal

    you see fingerssfv, thats what Shogun fans do and it’s beyond pathetic. I had someone at work today try to tell me how Shogun won this fight, and I verbally castrated his every argument and challenged him to sit down and rewatch the fight with me where he immediately declined.

    I’m a huge Mayhem Miller fan, but i’m not going around saying he got robbed vs St. Pierre or that he really beat Shields as much as I wanted him to win. Shogun fans are weird like that though.