Transgender Fighter Fallon Fox Says She is Actually at a Disadvantage to Her Opponents

May 20, 2013
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FallonFox-2760-LMuch has been made of male-to-female transgender athlete Fallon Fox’s participation as a fighter in women’s mixed martial arts competition, and specifically in Championship Fighting Alliance’s women’s tournament.

Nearly everyone has an opinion on the situation. Several women in the sport have said that they believe the 37-year-old Fox – born a man, but having undergone gender reassignment surgery and hormonal treatments – has a physical advantage over her female-born counterparts.

UFC women’s champ Ronda Rousey and her next challenger, Cat Zingano, have both gone on record saying they believe Fox has a physical advantage.

Fox, however, says that she does not have an advantage over her opponents. In fact, she believes, if anything, it’s the opposite.

“I’m actually at a disadvantage,” Fox said on a recent edition of Inside MMA. “Before the surgery, I started on hormone replacement surgery, back in 2002, 2003.”

She continues the hormone treatments to this day.

“I have to. If I don’t take estrogen hormone replacement therapy, I can get osteoporosis,” she continued. “So any of the women I’m competing against, my testosterone levels are drastically lower than theirs; it’s almost nothing.”

Dr. Marci Bowers, a gender reassignment surgeon who has also undergone the procedure, concurred.

“If you measure (Fox’s) endurance and her strength, it’s actually that of a comparable woman of the same age,” Bowers told Inside MMA. “What happens is after surgery patients actually regress in that their bone density drops to what a comparable woman of her size would be.

“When you test her, she’s gonna come out with low testosterone levels and muscle mass that is remarkably similar to her counterparts.”

The range of reaction from Fox’s fellow CFA women’s tournament competitors is just as varied as that of the rest of the MMA world.

“I understand it’s necessary to protect (Fox’s) rights and make sure that she’s being treated fairly,” Peggy Morgan, one of the favorites in the CFA tournament, told MMAWeekly.com at the time the matter flared. “And I do think that is something that should happen, but I feel like our safety (the other tournament fighters) should be protected as well.”

Morgan and her trainer, John Fain, also issued an inflammatory video about Fox that was much less reserved.

“Fallon Fox is not Rosa Parks,” declared Fain. “He lied on his Florida state application to fight, and as a result, assaulted an unknowing woman in the cage. This is a total lack of character and integrity. We are not afraid of Fallon Fox, but we are not going to fight him.”

Fox’s CFA 11 opponent, Allanna Jones, hasn’t been nearly as critical or as vocal.

“I’m so used to training with people bigger than me, so I look at it as another fight,” Jones told Inside MMA. “I feel it could be (a physical advantage), but once I get in the cage with her I might not be able to tell. It is what it is basically.”

The CFA and Fox are getting a lot of attention over the matter, but in the end, Fox stands by the idea that it is not just her opinion that she is a fair fight for any woman in her weight class.

“It’s not just my opinion, it’s the medical community’s opinion.”

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  • Darin

    He/she looks more female than Cyborg Santos. If someone put a gun to my head and I had to bang Fox or Santos….Fox it is.

    • Mcgiggity

      Someone likes ladyboys

    • DoubleDutchRudder

      What if Santos sneak up behind you and raped you? I don’t think you could fight back.

    • Alex Anderson

      lol oh man someone actually said something funny and intelligent, two things that are sorely lacking in this forum.

  • jbroce

    of course the one doctor defending it, is a doctor that went through the same procedure.

  • Mcgiggity

    Sounds like BS to me. I’ve seen trannies knock out grown men firsthand; that man strength lingers. You can bring me out a paid professional to say the sky isn’t blue, but if I can see that its so, you’re not gonna convince me.

    Fallon fox is going to be stronger and meaner than every female opponent because the chick used to be a dude (a military veteran with a biological daughter btw).

    Let her fight dudes or other trannies like the ladyboy thai boxers do in Thailand. Some of those broads have winning records against trained fighters; its sporting and its entertainment.

    This is like a trained fighting dog going up against a female yellow lab who happens to Weigh the same – in no way is it even close to a fair fight.

    Here is my ambivalence: Women mma fighters shouldnt be fighting men. Same with a woman who wants to fight a tranny – of course she’s going to get slaughtered! Now on the other hand, if the broad wants to fight a man or she knows the opponent is a tranny and still wants the fight, you have to let her even if its gonna be a mess.

    So now that its out in the open, best of luck to both fighters. Just let it be known that this is a one sided match.

    • kozeyekan

      Even putting all that aside, she fought women without disclosing that she was born a man. If a woman wants to fight her knowing this, then fair play, everyone knows the deal and accepts it, but to fight without disclosing this is just low. It’s a suckerpunch and should result in her fights declared NC.

      • urdooomb

        this is true

      • Mcgiggity

        I agree. If they’ll call a legit win a NC for pat healy (and tons of other guys) just cuz they were smokin dope, they should definitely overturn those fights.

      • Alex Anderson

        That’s easy for you to say. If it’s a fair fight, and that person considers herself to be “a woman” then it’s arguably not lying, and more importantly, it’s not morally significant, even if it isn’t entirely accurate. Presumably she didn’t say because she was afraid of prejudice. You assumed the worst about her motivations, which seems overly hasty, and one might even go as far as to say that that is more of a reflection on the way you think than anything else.

    • Alex Anderson

      Your evidence as to “trannies” being stronger than women of the same size is laughable. How do you know that the one you saw knockout a guy was on full hormone therapy for long enough for the effects to manifest? And have you really collected enough data from transsexuals to confirm that they are stronger than women OF THE SAME SIZE? Obviously someone who knows how to throw a punch can still knockout someone who is physically stronger than them, and so your story proves virtually nothing. Men, and “transsexual” women as well, tend to be larger than other women, which is the most obvious way in which transexuals would clearly tend to have an advantage over women in combat sports, but that’s obviously not an issue because of weight classes.

      I highly doubt that the experts can be totally clear about whether it’s totally “fair” either, and I share your concerns, but I think this issue is a lot grayer than people are making it out to be. Once you have people who are the same size and who supposedly have the same levels of strength and endurance (according to medical professionals), then it seems plausible to argue that levels of ability are at least roughly equivalent. Personally I think it’s a terrible career choice, but then again, it’s not like it’s easy for transsexuals to choose a career, or to even function within society, because people are incredibly resistant to accepting them in almost any context whatsoever, so it should come as no surprise that transsexuals tend to make seemingly strange career choices. At least I can think of worse career choices.

      • Mcgiggity

        I provided no evidence that was not anecdotal, which is all I have because I don’t care about these non-issues enough to don a lab coat and start analyzing. However there is a great deal of common sense that gets thrown out the window on issues that are (for some people) emotional such as this one. 9 times out of 10 a man who weighs 155 will be much stronger and more capable in a fight than a woman who weighs 155, and that tenth guy is just a pansy.

        The real grey area here is the effect of hormone treatments on different individuals, which is all over the place whether its testosterone replacement or estrogen. Some guys get prescribed testosterone via pills, injections, patches, etc. with varying degrees of effectiveness. Some guys bodies don’t process the testosterone and they continue to have deficiencies until they find the right dose and application method, and some guys never find the right balance. They just have to live with low T. Same thing with estrogen treatments – sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t. When they work it varies from person to person application to application. Some women and more importantly some trannies’ bodies don’t properly process their hormone treatments, effectively transforming them into eunichs rather than post op transsexuals. Eunichs are not weak or frail, generally; there are many historical accounts of very physically powerful eunichs who would guard harems because they were savage fighters who wouldn’t molest the women in the harem.
        With that in mind, for you to claim that because a dude is on hormone therapy, he’s the same as a biological woman is pretty laughable to me.

        You are making this into a facade of a civil rights issue when it is an issue of safety, fairness (to BOTH combatants) and disclosure in that order. You are unable to provide any hard evidence, same as me, because the evidence does not exist either way. Because of that I think it best to err on the side of caution and wait until there is empirical and objective data available, which as of now does not exist. We are talking about a violent, concussive contact sport, not tennis. This PC nonsense is ludicrous.

        • Mcgiggity

          To reiterate, I don’t want fox banned, in fact quite the opposite: I want Fallon fox to pioneer the TFL (tranny fighting league). It would be great! Imagine the highlight reels!!

          Failing that, as long as each one of her opponents knows that she used to be a military man and still wants to fight, I have no problem with that as long as people understand fox will beat every woman she faces.

          • femme

            ya cause saying tranny isn’t misogynist and transphobic at all. And what does her military record have to do with anything. Should all the other women that had military time be banned due to some false idea that their training gives them an advantage.

  • Cereal Killer

    Brett Favre is more relevant to football than Fox is to MMA. Stop giving her media coverage.

    • http://www.mmamadman.com/ Chase Brian Beebe

      * him

  • fsunoles10

    can yall please stop giving this dude so much attention? wtf did he do to earn it? seems all it takes to get recognition in this world now a days is be gay or a tranny. jason collins comes out as gay, sucks his entire career no pun intended and has been every where in the papers meeting the first lady and all this crap. than you got the tranny who has fought nobody and is what 2 and 0 or something like that and is all over mma sites for no other reason than being a tranny fighting women. dont empower and reward this type of behavior, what have they done to earn it? nothing so treat them like anybody else but that wont happen in liberal america.

  • Chris Kennedy

    The only way to solve a fair fight for her/him is to start a transgender ONLY MMA promotion. Ladyboy’s vs Ladyboy’s is the only true way to find out.

    • http://www.mmamadman.com/ Chase Brian Beebe

      lmao

    • bajafox

      I bet there would be a lot of fighters from Thailand

  • Jack Burton

    There was another doctor that said the opposite. There should be a board of doctors that decides this, not just one that is biased.

    • Alex Anderson

      You assume that a doctor is biased because they’re transgendered? Wouldn’t it be just as likely that they understand transsexuality better than most other doctors? In any case, I agree with your conclusion…

      • Kbroesq

        No, it’s not just as likely. That’s like saying a homosexual is just as likely to be against gay marriage as they are to be in favor of it.

        It’s much more likely that the transgender doctor is going to support any position that equates transgender ‘women’ with actual women psychologically. What do you think the guy is going to say? “Yeah, I changed my entire life to become transgender, but it’s really all a fraud – I’m really still a guy with the same hormones, etc. as men.”

        Very naive.

  • AARC51

    Is anyone surprised that a transsexual is delusional?

  • Hendryx

    I wish everyone would just quit reporting on this fraud, and hope she goes away. She knows its wrong to fight natural women and she knows it.

  • JOE SHINE

    Fallon should fight Brian Caroway

  • larry

    One gender reassigned Dr’s. opinion does not constitute the entire medical community.

  • JDMMA

    Why ? Why Transgender MMA fighter ?

  • stoneloc

    it looka like a man shouldnt be fighting woman cause it is a man

  • FightProfessor

    I can’t believe the Florida Athletic Commission allows this abomination to fight women

    • Sir_Roy

      Referring to another human being as an “abomination” due to gender, sexual preference, race, culture or transgender choices/affiliation is based on equal parts fear and ignorance.

      So in other words, you just labelled yourself a frightened idiot.

      Someone who was born a man, and feels fundamentally “female” has not led an untroubled life to be sure. Huge identity issues they felt could only be resolved artificially. Are they like you or me as a result? No. Does that make them an “abomination”? Pretty sure racists & fascists talked similar about other races, customs and cultures they didn’t comprehend (& therefore refused to accept) back in the day as well. Nazi’s used to refer to Jews as abominations as well. Congratulations for being just as backwards & small minded. Please collect your white hooded mask on your way out the door.

      She/he (whatever) should not be allowed to fight other biologically born females IMHO. On this, we all mostly seem to be in agreement. But c’mon folks. Stop acting like small minded conformists & prepubescent teens. Quit with the insults and name calling.

      • takasar1

        lol, so you agree with the sentiment but not with the choice of words? sorry, but that is just as ignorant, its just that you are too chicken to voice your concerns in the same way.

        • Sir_Roy

          I blatantly do not agree with the ‘sentiment’ and most definitely not with his choice of words.

          You have serious comprehension issues – which leads to you sounding completely stupid whilst trying to act smart.

          Stating a transgendered man should not be allowed to compete against women in a combat sport, is not even on the same playing field as labeling said transgendered man an “abomination”.

          • femme

            But there isn’t a trans man wanting to, and fighting, in this instance. were talking about a trans woman fighting a cis woman.

          • Sir_Roy

            Whatever. You necro’d a six month old post / thread to talk semantics then fine. Have at it. Fox was born a man. That has bearing on the issue at hand, regardless what your idiot compassion sentimentality would have you believe. Does Fox have the right to feel he’s a she? Sure. Does it make it so? Within her psyche, absolutely. However, while modern science can help adjust, it doesn’t completely remake the DNA. Doesn’t eradicate the “Y” chromosome. Nor does it make said human being an abomination either. Far from. Another human being trying to get by and cope with the hand they were dealt the best way they know how. Should a transgender compete against other women? That is definitely open to debate.

          • Mana Weindel

            According to your statements you would not allow an XY woman with CAIS (Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) to fight either.. In this instance The same effects are personally chosen by Fallon due to her transgender status, so you don’t really have a valid point about her being male.. Male and Female are social constructs it has very little to do with actual genetics.. And she is doing just what you said she should live by what she got, otherwise there wouldn’t be hospitals in the first place.. Quit your antics and stop drooling over ciswomen with breast implants..

          • Sir_Roy

            And yet another running into the field a year later with nothing intelligent, or even overly relevant to my comments, to say.

            Male and female have little to do with genetics??? WTF???

            … Really now … yet more moronic commentary. You only wish this were true so you could cope with your own obviously abiding gender issues.

            Sorry to break it to you though, but being born either male or female, with all physical traits it entails, has everything to do with genetics I’m afraid. Male and female are mere social constructs? Ignorant comment at best. Men wearing blue and women wearing pink can be said to have social conventions as a driving factor, to lend an example, but c’mon now.

            Almost unbelievable.

  • JContreras

    I’m sure Ronda would still break this dudes arm. Pathetic is an understatement. Like Joe Rogan said…..If you were born with a D***, you’re a GUY! Doesn’t matter what kind of surgery you get or hormones you’re taking!

  • Alex Anderson

    A medical panel does seem like a good idea.

    I admit, I’m a bit uncomfortable with transexuals as well. I don’t consider them to be “women” per se, but I don’t really care if they want to be called “women,” they’re not really men either (at least not
    anymore). It certainly does seem questionable to allow them to compete in women’s combat sports.

    Even if she does have an “advantage,” it’s probably not enough of an advantage that can be obviously proved, and I suspect that the most talented female athletes in mma probably still have an overall greater physical “advantage,” than this specific person, and I also suspect that a naturally born woman on steroids has a considerably more significant physical advantage as well. We should probably be more concerned about steroid use than this issue, but people focus on this issue because people are afraid or uncomfortable with the idea of transsexuals.

    • Mmafan187

      No its not that people are afraid or uncomfortable its because fallon is still essentially a man beating up on women. Lower ur testosterone all you want you still have the bone density/structure of a man despite that 1you doctors statement about bone density regression im not buying it. I wat fallons fights and i didnt see any high level mma talent thats obvious when you watch rousey or zingano. They were just brute force kos resulting from the naturally bigger stronger structure of a man. With all this being said i do respect fallons personal choice of changing genders but i strongly disagree with allowing her to fight in wmma at this point in time

      • dev

        I notice that you’re not an M.D.
        Do you think maybe the surgeon quoted above is? Because he seems to disagree with your point on bone density. He must have forgot to double check with you before he made his statement.

    • Mana Weindel

      Well you being uncomfortable with us transgender people is understandable, being transgender is complicated and it’s hard to understand. Never the less I think you have a fair point about the steroids. I am really saddened to see all the disregard for the medical facts and the obvious display of fear and loathing in these comments but your was sensible and very to the point.

  • JOE SHINE

    Meisha Brian Caroway the f@g and Fallon the freak should fight

  • JOE SHINE

    Where did fallon Fox’s balls go give them to Brian Caroway.

  • JOE SHINE

    Please give Fallon’s 2 testes to Brian mr. Tate Caroway.

  • R623

    “She” is genetically a man. The IOC would never let her compete because of that. The UFC should take their example. I have no problem calling her Miss but she has male genes and therefore a male’s potential to build muscle and strength. It’s not fair to let her compete as a female. Period. (or lack there of)

    • femme

      Yes lets follow your idea, let UFC follow the IOC rules on this issue. Oh wait they are. She would be allowed to participate in an Olympic sport if that was her desire to train to do so. (insert feet in mouth R623)

  • Ryan Speers

    Fallen fox is jone jones sister

  • Rodney Gualderama Jr.

    That’s NOT a woman from a scientific standpoint. From a social standpoint it’s up to each person to decide. If you want to called a woman fine but if you want to compete in a combat sport where you can knee someone in the face, sorry but it’s a different issue entirely. People who are for this person competing as a female don’t look at the biological advantages and just stuck on this person being socially accepted. I’m all for accepting other people’s personal decisions but they are crossing the line when they push so hard for acceptance that they willing to justify a man kneeing a woman in the face just because we’ve been catering to their identity crisis’ up until now. Science has come a long way but they still can’t pull off a full scale sex change in it’s entirety. They have done well in taking a male body and giving it artificial female traits but with a natural male body as the base you can’t say that is 100 percent a woman biologically. There are still advantages present despite being “watered down” as male from the treatment. There are things that are still are male traits in this person despite efforts to water them down. Bone density, reaction time, the fact that he’s been living life as a full blown male until not long ago are all things that they can’t address yet. We even have different centers of gravity which is why there are male and female bicycles. If people wanna get crazy over someone having a problem with Fox wearing a dress fine but letting Fox knee other women in the face as is? No freakin way! You wanna get mad, blame the doctors for not perfecting the procedure to cater to those who want to compete and just doing enough so you can put on a dress and possibly hook up with a few dudes without always having to say you use to be one.

  • barney rubble

    People who mutilate their own bodies commit an abomination, more so when the mutilation attempts to mimic the opposite sex, however, the whole concept of women in sports, combat sport in particular, is disgusting to any person living according to God’s plan. Men, like Dana White, who promote women’s involvement in sanctioned violence, are whoremongers, and will be judged accordingly.