Brock Lesnar Could Have Been One of the Best

January 6, 2012
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(Guest editorial by Ryan McKinnell)

It took former UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar only four fights as a professional to achieve the pinnacle of his sport.

And it took only four more to derail one of the most promising careers in MMA history.

The end for Brock Lesnar officially came Friday night at UFC 141, when he ran into MMA’s heavyweight version of Ivan Drago… “The Demolition Man,” Alistair Overeem.

Truthfully though, Lesnar’s demise began long ago.

It was first at UFC 121 when the world saw Lesnar’s true distaste for MMA.  It wasn’t that he couldn’t beat world-class fighters; he obviously could, as shown by his destruction of perennial Top 10 fighters Randy Couture, Frank Mir, and Shane Carwin, respectively.

But that night at UFC 121, his opponent, Cain Velasquez, showed the world that Brock Lesnar lacked the most fundamental ability to becoming a long-term world champion in the sport of professional fighting; you had to be able to take a punch.

For Lesnar, it wasn’t even a matter of being able to take a punch. It was a matter of absolutely despising getting punched.  Not only couldn’t Lesnar take a punch, whenever he did get hit, he seemed like a wounded deer limping down range, as his camouflaged counterpart swooped in for the kill.

After the knockout loss to Velasquez, that left Lesnar looking like a discombobulated amateur, reports flooded in from Lesnar’s camp that the former champion didn’t let his sparring partners use full-contact drills when training for his title fight.

Essentially, the heavyweight champion of the world’s greatest fighting organization, trained for the biggest fight of his career without getting hit… allegedly.

So when Alistair Overeem ended their fight and Lesnar’s MMA career at UFC 141, for many it wasn’t a surprise.  Overeem stalked Lesnar, popped him with a few jabs, sprawled a few takedown attempts, and ended the fight with a devastating liver kick, which left Lesnar turtling up with an excruciating grimace across his face.

It was painfully obvious to all who watched that Lesnar couldn’t hang with the new age mixed martial artist.  But here’s the thing, in a certain place in time, Lesnar could have been one of the true legends of the sport.

Think about it.  MMA’s history is so short-lived and brief that the eras of each given fighting style can be broken into four- to six-year periods, respectively.

The first wave came from 1993-1997. That was the era of the jiu-jitsu fighter.  Men like Royce Gracie left the fighting world, and more specifically top-tier wrestlers, scrambling to gain any knowledge of the enigmatic art that was shrouded with so much mystery.  Never before had the world seen a fighting style that was so unassuming, both in its approach to fighting and the combatants who used it.  Gracie – who was no more than 165 pounds soaking wet – won three of the first four inaugural UFC tournaments, becoming an MMA legend in the process.

Around 1997, wrestlers started catching up to the jiu-jitsu game. Men like Mark Kerr, Mark Coleman, Dan Henderson, Tom Erikson, and Randy Couture dominated the MMA landscape.  So from 1997-2002, you had the era of the wrestler.

From 2002-2006, you had the era of the striker.  Fighters like Chuck Liddell, Wanderlei Silva, Takanori Gomi, and the Rua Brothers ran roughshod over their respective divisions.  Having caught up to the arts of wrestling and jiu-jitsu, these stand-up fighters were allowed to dictate where their fights would go, and in the process had free reign to showcase their world-class striking prowess.  The Pride organization in Japan, where Silva, Gomi, and the Rua’s fought, was especially exciting because they allowed kicks to a downed opponent (soccer kicking), as well as knees – a most nostalgic time indeed.

That brings us to present day.  From 2006-present, we are living in the era of the complete mixed martial artist.  Men like Jon Jones, Junior dos Santos, Georges St-Pierre, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo, Nick Diaz, and Gilbert Melendez reign supreme over the MMA world.  With their collection of skills and devastating all-around pedigree’s, this new wave of mixed martial artist is what we dreamed about only years ago.

And herein lies Brock Lesnar’s dilemma.  He was the product, or more correctly, a proverbial “slave” to his time.

If Brock Lesnar emerged in that era from 1997-2002, not only would he become a dominant champion, he likely would go down as one of the greatest heavyweights of any generation.  With his freakish athletic ability and all-world wrestling credentials, Lesnar would have dominated his foes on God-given ability alone.  Essentially, he proved as much with his previous performances in the UFC.

Unfortunately for the former NCAA National Champion, one-time NFL roster invite, WWE superstar, and former UFC heavyweight champion, he arrived in an era where his time had passed.

What Lesnar accomplished in his time as a professional fighter is nothing short of spectacular.  He attained the pinnacle of his sport in a time when most are still toiling in bingo halls, 4-H fairgrounds, and muddy parking lots across the United States.  He beat some of the top fighters in the world on a relatively brief period of training.

If it weren’t for his ability, or lack there-of, to take a punch, Lesnar would still be fighting today.

As UFC president Dana White reiterated at the UFC 141 press conference, “This isn’t some sport where you go and hit a ball with a stick.  This is the real deal. This is fighting.”

There is no doubt Brock Lesnar is a fighter in the game of life.  Ask the 12 inches of colon he had removed in May if Brock Lesnar is a tough S.O.B.

Ask Randy Couture, Heath Herring, Frank Mir, and Shane Carwin if Brock Lesnar is a true “fighter.”

But in the UFC, it’s not about whether you can fight or not, it’s about whether you can be the best in the world.  And at UFC 141, Brock Lesnar found out he couldn’t be, so he stepped aside.

And for that, I applaud him.  And so should you.

Follow Ryan McKinnell at @RyanMcKinnell on Twitter.
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  • chuckalugk

    He had the tools to be great, but not the mental game. He did not like being hit, and his standup game was not that good. Watching him against Overeem, he looked scared.

    • kylesmith

      Brock never would have been an all-time great. Anybody that is THAT afraid to get hit is an all-time embarrassment for the sport. I can not believe that the UFC actually passed this guy off as their “champion” for a while. Every time he gets hit he folds like a little girl with a skinned knee.

      • You are pretty much ******** on frank mir , Shane carwin , heath herring and randy coture by saying that . LOL if lesnar is an embarrassment what does that make the guys that he beat? Also Lesnar defended the UFC title 2 times Only 3 people have done it 2 times and no one more then 2 times

    • onehitwonder


      • fitefan

        Stop screaming.
        He was a afraid. When Carwin hit him, he fing turned his back and ran away! Then poked his head over his arms with eyes WIDE WITH FEAR to see if Carwin was chasing him.
        He was recovered from his surgury or the UFC wouldn’t let him fight. No time in the world will help you recover from cowardice.

        Well said Kylesmith

    • He defended the UFC title 2 times. No one has done it three and Only 3 have done it two times !! Every UFC HW champion has been knocked out or tapped out in the first round and all of them faster then Lesnar was ! If he is a joke what are the guys he beat ? Overreem has been knocked out in the firts round before and in less time then 3 min . Real fights you never know

  • maratk

    Not a word about Fedor. What a moron this author?

    • MikeMc1983

      What would fedor have to do with this editorial?

      • elguapo

        What does fedor have to do with anything here? Surely a journalist can write a piece on heavyweight mma without being obliged to mention his name?

    • Lesnardo

      See my comment below.

      The writer believes in the cycle theory of grapping vs striking.

      Fedor, BJ and GSP (well rounded fighters) are exceptions to that theory.

  • MikeMc1983

    Lol, here we go again, another place for hater comments. Lol

    • jmsbjj

      yep pre-drug testing he would have been

    • Lesnardo

      U just mad that you picked Brock to win.

      If I remember correctly you announced on this board that Brock would beat Cain. Then you announced that Brock would beat JDS. Most recently you picked Brock over Overeem.

      • MikeMc1983

        If you were talking about me picking Brock to beat those people then you are mistaken. I almost never “pick fight winners.” (I believe I have only picked a fight winner on this site once, and it was a fight that never took place.
        The closest I ever get to picking winners is when I discuss what I believe fighters must do to win.
        Of course like everyone else, I usually have an opinion on who will when, I just don’t bring it up.

        • MikeMc1983

          Who will win* Damn iPhone auto-correct, and my big ass thumb. Lol

  • rayman2011

    I’m glad Overeem retired that clown. It was a disgrace for the sport to have that WWE guy as a champion. Only newbies, noobs and UFC fan boys believed the hype. Now we can focus on true fighters. He just got the right matchups and the right fights because it was convenient for the UFC. Now go back were you belong clown!

    • TKD

      Perfectly said, rayman2011!!!

    • shereko

      Whats the difference between newbies and noobs?

      • Lesnardo

        Identical meaning. Newbies had been in usage before noobs started being used.

        • shereko

          Exactly my point.

          • MrAdidas

            LMFAO – He explained it to you, but I do not think he understands what you mean. Lesnardo: Why not just type NOOBS or NEWBIES? There was no point in writing both, if they both mean the same thing, then why write the two of them?

  • fitefan

    All the tools to be a true legend except one.
    Heart. The most important part.
    It’s a great disapointment.

    I like how the author was described Brock’s inability to take a punch.

    I still disagree with him being a true fighter. That’s just being gracious, not truthful.

    It was Carwin, not Cain that illustrated Brock’s achilles heel.

    I never heard that he didn’t train full contact, but that can easily be believed as true.

    Aside from a lack of heart, I’d say he didn’t train smart either.

    And you don’t have be a tough SOB to get part of your colon removed. It’s not like he’s awake for the whole thing, and sent home 30 minutes after his surgury with no meds.
    Try natural child birth.

    It’s contradictory to say he’s a tough SOB, but can’t take a punch.

  • It’s like something that was said earlier in the week. If you’re fighting guys with KO power that are 250 lbs and you take a punch with full power because you can’t block or move out of the way, you’re going to go out. And don’t question the guys heart…he had heart for days. Otherwise, he would’ve caved in the Carwin fight and nobody would’ve blamed him. He was still kicking and trying to push Cain away. He never went out. He just had no standing defense. Don’t try to say he got the right matchups. He fought Frank Mir who has been destroying most people for years and made him look like ****. Herring who gave Big Nog a good fight as well as many other HWs for years got crushed by Lesnar. Randy who had fought Sylvia and had beaten the much larger man easily could do nothing against Brock. And Carwin who had never been out of the 1st round, saw the 2nd round for the very first time against the guy you claim had no heart. You guys are all haters. Brock brought in a great amount of fans to the sport and did not bother you. You just have a problem with a WWE superstar coming over and doing what he did in such a short amount of time. Nobody talks **** about Cormier, Carwin, or Velasquez who have the same kind of college wrestling experience. So with that, get the hell off the guy’s back and let him retire in peace.

  • BlackDog2009

    Wait, what was the middle part again? … and wait, why should we apploud him?

    My God… I don’t understand the romance MMA writers have with this guy. This is the like the third type article on asking us fans to look at Lesnar in admiration of some kind.

    Look, Lesnar was never gonna be great. From the beginning, he made it clear that he was here for the money. He never expressed love for the sport, he never expressed a desire to evolve. In fact… look back at most of his interviews… this guy hardly made any true MMA references, discussed martial arts styles or made attempts at discussing a particular Jiu Jitsu tecnique.

    Most recently when asked about Overeem before facing each other he said he didn’t know much of the guy. He was aware that Reem had long term accomplishments in the sport but never ever gave any indication that he was preparing to face a huge guy with an inmmense pedigree in kick boxing. Are you kidding me?! You’re going to fight for the number one spot to challenge the champ, you’re going up against STrikeforce’s HW champ (who vacated the title by the way, never was beaten for it), had not been beaten since 2007, a former K-1 HW champ and you’re not going to prepare for him?!! You’re going to go in and stand with the guy, eat knee after knee? Just look at Lesnar’s demeanor when the referee was going over the rules and he had Reem looking him in the eyes… Lesnar was about ready to run out of there. He went in there to lose, he knew it.

    Yeah, the era by era breakdown was nice and insightful, but Lesnar isn’t an old man. And there are guys out there that don’t like to get punched either, they’ve gotten their ass beaten down many times and they’re still in the game, keep fighting, training, learning, struggling. For the money sure, but also because they love the sport, they love the rush, they like to fight and go down fighting. Title or not, those are the guys I applaud, not the gloryhounds like Lesnar who were given opportunities based on their marketability.

    I will not applaud Lesnar, never will. There is no legacy that he leaves for MMA. Not any significant anyway.

    • TKD

      Well said, BlackDog2009. Well said!

    • shereko

      Actually, if you ever heard any of his press conferences, all he talked about was his love of the sport. I’m not a huge fan, just seeing this from both sides and not specifically hating just for hating. He worked back after getting his “illness” just to fight. He made money before UFC, he didn’t need that money. Hell, hate all you want, he’s retired, not bothering your hollier than thou world, I just don’t see the point of pissing on his grave. But, I guess thats just how some people are. I’m not going to say you’d get in the cage with him because thats a dumb statement, but maybe he’s like the guy that picked on you in school or something but, your points are grasps at a momentary reason to hate.

      • What? His love of the sport? He loved the fact he could really punch people, until he realized ” oh **** I didn’t know they hit you back” ” I’m out”, his love went as far as his skills did.

        • TKD

          douglasray, go easy on shereko. He is just spewing what others are telling him.

        • fitefan


  • I really liked this article I still agree with fitefan tho. Definently lacked heart, and even in the time frame mentioned 97-02 still needed to be able to take those punches. And no one ques. His fighting outside the cage with his illness, hell of a dude to go thro that. But with that said still think quittin or stepping aside was lack of a better word crappy and I don’t see how it wasn’t a let down for lesnar fans in there eyes. When he could do like so many other fighters from efrain escudero, keith jardine, and so many other guys who didn’t do quite so good in UFC so drop down to other orrganizations kick some butt get some exp. And confidence and try again.I’m not Lesnar fan but good article.

    • shereko

      Its his career, his life, we don’t know what his sickness does to him daily… if he wants to walk away at anytime, if any fighter wants to walk away thats on them, they are the ones that put the time in the gym, time in camp, making weight, time away from their families for others entertainment dollar… Escudero is broke and what else can he do. Jardine was just in a low budget StoneCold movie… we’ll see how his desire wavers.

      • Don’t even start putting things off on his illness. I like tito, and big nog but I’m so tired, of fighters losing and then blaming it on the “ILLNESS or the INJURY” after the press conference and stating they were ” I’m at 100%.” You lost plain and simple just like GSP when Serra caught him he got caught. Be man stand up like Cerrone did and say “the bigger badder dog showed up tonight” plain and simple.

        And u totally just overlooked the point I was making bout jardine and escudero. You woulda been better off saying he pulled a chris lylte and made his money, but the difference in that is he paid his dues and was awesome fighter. He took his loses and camee back and whooped some ass. His love of the sport and his money he had no reason to quit other than as mentioned in the article, his very visible reactions to getting hit.

        • fitefan

          that’s right. GSP made no excuses for being clipped behind the ear.
          And Cerrone went to the press conference like a real man, swallowed his pride and faced the music.

          Brock chickened out of that too.
          Brack was already quiting before this fight. And if this fight wasn’t a direct path to a title fight, he wouldn’t have even fought in it.

          • TKD

            @ fitefan: You said it BEST when you wrote, “Brack was already quiting before this fight. And if this fight wasn’t a direct path to a title fight, he wouldn’t have even fought in it.”

            He was in it for the wrong reasons. Glad to see him go!

  • TKD

    Ryan McKinnell,

    “If Brock Lesnar emerged in that era from 1997-2002, not only would he become a dominant champion, he likely would go down as one of the greatest heavyweights of any generation.”

    Yeah, and IF my grandmother had balls we would have called her grandpa! What an idiotic piece of journalism!!

    Lesnar was never a true MMA fighter, and he proved it time and time again. Carwin showed us that first. Lesnar is big, drew a lot of people to the sport, and is strong. None of that makes a great MMA fighter!

    He took his money and ran like a bitch before he got killed in the ring with real fighters. So long, and good riddance!

    • Lol yea ,I see where he was going with that but it still doesn’t take away from the fact that u get hit in 97 just as hard as u get hit in 2011.

  • MikeMc1983

    The money comments are pretty funny. Brock going to the UFC for money would be like a lawyer giving up his job, and going to burger king for a paycheck.
    Just because he was making more than the other fighters doesn’t mean he was making more than his other life endeavors. Brock can be slammed for a lot of things, but it Takes credibility away from other comments in a post when people act like he was just searching for paychecks.
    Hell, I’m the short term he could have probably gotten bigger checks from affliction, or strikeforce.

    • elguapo

      Agreed, the guy was very wealthy already, I don’t think being in it for the cash is an issue. Being in it for the glory? Quite possibly.

    • Yea money! Remember when he dissed Budlight for not sponsoring him and broke it down in the post fight press conference because Dana White got in his ass for dissing the UFC sponsor.
      Brock – “I’m drinking a cooler full of Coors Light, Coors Light because Bud Light won’t pay me anything.” There you have it!! Not about the money yeah right, it’s always about the money!!!

      • elguapo

        No you are confused. I’d say that was more of an ego thing. They don’t want to pay him (as in have him endorse their product) even though he feels he was the biggest draw. I don’t think the issue was him missing out on a few thousand.

      • MrAdidas

        Yeah, I do not think the whole “I’ll drink a Coors light, b/c Bud wont pay me nothing” was b/c he wanted money from Bud, but more so he wanted the “respect” that he was the “biggest” draw for the UFC, yet Bud still would not pay him. It was either he was “disrespected” or he wanted his ego stroked. IMO

  • Mario

    Good riddance!

    I said it once and I’ll say it again:
    “Brock Lesnar was never the best Heavyweight in MMA”

    The only reason he became #1 was because Fedor finally lost a fight. Brock was winning fights because the competition wasn’t as tough as it is now. It’s a good thing he didn’t fight JDS a few months back, or he would already be retired.

    Let’s look at his victims when he was, “at the top”

    Heath Herring
    (A man who seemed to be on his way out. Anybody know where this guy’s at?)

    Randy Couture
    (47 years old, ’nuff said!)

    Frank Mir
    (A man who lost pretty shamefully once to Brandon Vera)

    Shane Carwin
    (The man that Lesnar defeated, only after Shane Carwin beat him already)

    and then of course, the back-to-back losses to legit Heavyweights..

    So there you have it my friends. Brock Lesnar’s legacy. Could have been, but never came close really

    What a joke! 🙂

    • elguapo

      Thanks for telling us that. I don’t think you’ll find anyone on here who’s saying Lesnar was the best heavyweight in mma. And it’s very easy to be dismissive of the fighters he did beat. Eg you say Mir (a man who shamefully lost to Brandon Vera)? Yeah but he’s also a former champ and the first person to stop big nog and the first to submit him too. And randy is one of the greatest, even when he was getting old. I’ll give you herring, but the others?

    • phrankthetank

      I get the hate on Lesnar, but there are very good fighters on that list. Couture was 50 lbs lighter and still put pressure on Lesnar, regardless of age. Mir lost to Vera when he was coming back from a 2 year layoff recovering from a serious motorcycle accident. And carwin gassed himself out punching lesnars arms in the 1st rd.

  • elguapo

    Hard to argue with anything in this article, maybe except for it being carwin rather than Cain who exposed Lesnar’s disdain for standup. I don’t really agree with some of the posts on here either about the money aspect, but hey. The thing I really can’t understand about Lesnar is why, if he hated being hit and engaging in standup even in training, why the hell didn’t he just rush for a takedown at every opportunity? You can argue that overeem avoided his takedown attempt, but why didn’t he keep trying? I think the real disappointing thing about Lesnar’s mma career is that it left so many “what if” questions. What if he did come up through the ranks like everyone else has to? What if he did have heart, would he have been the best? What if he did train other martial arts disciplines or even a bit of stand up, would that have made a difference? I think it simply boils down to the fact the guy is clearly very arrogant and quite possibly a bit dumb. That said, I still enjoyed his fights for what they were.

  • longtime fan

    I just want to add somethin about Heath Herring. Im def. not a Brock lesnar fan, but his win against Herring was still a good victory. Heath had been on his way out but when he came into that fight with brock, he looked as good as ive seen him for awhile. But heath has always had problems with wrestlers. But if it were pride rules, heath would have one that fight, knees on the ground were heath’s fortay. And i also think that fight would have been much closer had it been a five round fight. Other than that initial punch to his orbital, all brock did was lay on heath.

  • Lesnardo

    Pretty much this is the thing on Brock.

    First, the man didn’t deserve the title in the first place. UFC was in a tough situation at that time with Fedor running shows outside the UFC and Nog as the UFC champ. Imagine what would have happened if Randy had lost to Fedor outside the UFC. UFC would have been a joke. Having said that Dana needed a new champ in the UFC and that was Brock Lesnar.

    Second, although he didn’t deserve a title shot in the first place, Brock did very well in his MMA career. He beat Randy, Frank Mir, and Shane Carwin. Although shit could be said about those three fights (example Randy is overrated at HW, Frank Mir sucks, Shane just gassed..etc) Brock did manage to beat those three who were all top 5 fighters at the time of each fights.

    Third, Brock’s downfall started with Carwin but the public did not see that until the Valesquez fight. Only after the Cain fight did the public, in retrospect, saw the Carwin fight as **** for Brock.

    Fourth, not mentioning Fedor in this article is stupid but serves the writer’s argument. The writer believes in the cycle theory of striking vs grapping. This is a popular theory that is correct for the most part. The exception to the theory is that well-rounded fighters like Fedor, GSP, and BJ have been on the top regardless of the cycle.

    Fifth, Brock would have been awesome back in the Pride days. It would have been Fedor vs Brock the biggest PPV match of all time. Unfortunately, the new breed of HWs are too big, too strong, and too skilled.

    Sixth, Brock is still a top 10 fighter. He can beat Mir, Nog, and UFC middle ranked fighters. Kongo, Nelson, Brenden Schaub..etc..would get killed. Brock has problems only with the cream of the crop fighters.

  • RonnieV

    I agree with most of these comments, except the hand-picked opponents comment by Rayman. He fought the best the UFC had while he was here. Mir twice, Herring, Couture, Carwin & Velasquez. He was supposed to fight Dos Santos, but he had issues with his guts.

    After the first Mir fight, eventhough he lost I was pumped to see him fight again. I’ve never seen a guy that big, move so fast in the octagon, and smother his opponents. I thought the guy was unbeatable, and probably most of us did, until the Cain fight, in which he was quickly destroyed. It’s been all downhill since then. No ill will towards the guy, definitely not a legend, but all his fights had me interested until now. If he fought again, would I buy the Pay-per-view, absolutely not. I think his retirement is a blessing for the UFC. If he does come back, he’ll be cast into the pit of casino heavyweights with Tim Sylvia, Fedor & Arlovski.

  • shereko

    I like how any article with the name Lesnar and even anything eluding to him that Mario, fitefan and TKD go after him left and right. The author of the article stated that Lesnar was not meant for this era of UFC, he could not take a punch, trained without getting hit. This isn’t a stick up for Brock article either, its his, the authors perspective. But, wow the hate gets a little old. Glad you’re on here venting instead of shooting up a school, post office or workplace.

    • TKD

      Hey shereko, I am not “going after the guy left and right”. I just never got the infatuation with Brock, nor did I ever believe he was a true MMA fighter. The WWE thing is not an issue to me. The issue stems from any pro athlete that decides to join another pro sport just because they think they are gifted enough to do so. We have all seen it a million times, and it gets old quickly.

      Brock, in any era, would have accomplished pretty much what he accomplished this time around. Did the UFC give him an easy road to the title? I don’t see it that way. Special treatment because of who he is? Ok, maybe a little as far as the quickness of his title shot. I don’t believe he was put up against bad competition at all, but I think we can all clearly see that he is no match for the current UFC HW division. What I saw in every one of his fights was a guy that thought his size and strength was going to compensate for his lack of true skills in the octagon. That is evident by his reaction to Carwin’s first round punching assault. Brock almost looked like an infant curling up in a fetal position. It was evident right then and there that he doesn’t know how to take a good shot. Did he survive the punches from Carwin? Yeah. But if Carwin had even 20% left in the tank, chances are he would have put Brock out in the 2nd round (yes, I am speculating, but you almost have to at that point). Brock certainly didn’t come out in the 2nd round loaded with energy either. He just happened to have a tiny bit more in the tank than Carwin did.

      Let’s not even talk about what Cain did to him. That was just embarrassing!

      Brock can retire, go to the WWE, or become a priest for all I care. I never thought he belonged in the UFC, and obviously he agrees with me because he left. Don’t think for a moment that he would have retired with the belt had he had a chance to win it again. His ego would have never allowed that to happen.

      As far as your comment, “Glad you’re on here venting instead of shooting up a school, post office or workplace”. I won’t even touch that. It says very little about your life if you believe this nonsense is that important to me.

  • This is hogwash!! OK Brock beat an aged Couture, went one and one with Mir, and Herring is a nobody. He only beat Carwin because he got tired. Carwin was giving him the business. I don’t want to read about what could have taken place. The point is that White was always on Brock’s nutsack. The fact that he didn’t train properly isn’t a surprise, he isn’t a fighter, Brock is an entertainer (WWE). The only thing Brock has is size and strength. Get on with your life.

    • LOVE IT!! Haha
      I agree, and even the aged couture was givin him ” the business b4 he got caught, and it could happen to anyone, plus randy hadn’t fought in a while. Had it been the randy that beat gonzaga and sylvia totally different story, so that street can go either way.
      Plus, you really can’t say In another time dimension Lesnar woulda been great, they had great fighters back then too, hell Mir was on a tear back then pretty positive tank abbott back then woulda laid brock out. Hell Royce coulda submitted him , he did fight that 500lb. Dude in a superfight couple years back.

      • elguapo

        Well Lesnar hadn’t fought in a while either. You can’t use cage rust as an excuse for one fighter yet not for another, pure double standards. But yeah, tank abbot vs Lesnar I’d love to see that. Has Brock technically got 1 fight left on his contract? They need to make that fight happen!

  • elguapo

    I wonder if Brock hadn’t been in the wwe previously to fighting, would we be seeing this level of contempt for the guy? I don’t think we would. What if one of those other wwe people decided to take up mma, particularly if they started straight off in the UFC. Isn’t there someone there who won the Olympics a few years ago? It just seems to me that people have a chip on their shoulders about wwe, is it just because it’s “fake” fighting?

    • See I’m not the only one lol, but there are others like bobby lashley, hell even the green ranger from back in the day is goin MMA. But they are having to work their butts off to get up there they aren’t being handed UFC contracts for title fight. I only agree to people do chop him down off the bat for being in WWE, I have no hate for him being there or trying to do something different just the fact that instead of gettin better in it he just quits. And kurt angle had a chance to come to ufc but he couldn’t pass the medical. Per Dana.

      • elguapo

        Yeah but they don’t have the name and freakish physical attributes that Brock does. Lashley looks pretty lousy in my opinion, I don’t think he’ll ever be good enough for the big leagues. Even clay guida’s fat brother came within an inch of beating him. At the end of the day, if u were Brock and the UFC came to you and said “we think you’re good enough, we will pay you a bucket load of cash” etc or u could slum it out fighting in some backwater for a few hundred bucks, which would you do? I’d challenge anyone to say they would do different.

  • The guy was fun to watch and he brought more eyes and attention to the sport. Love him or hate him Brock Lesnar was good for MMA and everyone commenting on this article tuned in to watch him fight.

    • RonnieV


  • Iamrozylo

    So many ****** articles about a fighter who isn’t really a fighter. The guy got buy on size and luck. Barely anything is being talk about the guy that beat him. A guy who has actually fought, and accomplished something in this sport. Lesnar won his title against a guy who was 80 pounds lighter. I I fought someone 80 pounds lighter I’d be fighting a 3 year old.

    • Lesnardo

      But Randy did beat Sylvia and Gonzaga, two of the best fighters at that time. You can discount the wins by saying (a) Randy beat Sylvia via point match and in a rematch Randy would have gotten killed and (b) Gonzaga was hype if anything.

      But the fact of the matter is Randy beat those guys.

      Frank Mir was also on fire back then. He beat Nog, the interim champion at the time and the #2 guy in the world.

      So yes, circa 2009, Brock was the real deal.

      • Tim Sylvia was hype not gonzaga. Gonzaga was as good as he did. He never was a champion and as he got older he couldn’t keep up. But Ray Mercer and fedor showed that Sylvia was hyped up, that’s y randy took the fight in the first place. He got tired of Sylvia getting victories the way he was.

        • Lesnardo

          “But Ray Mercer and fedor showed that Sylvia was hyped up”

          Okay, that statement totally convinced me that you started watching the UFC around 2007, before Sylvia vs Arlovski era.

          You are aware that Tim Sylvia is the longest reigning HW champ in the UFC history right?

          Fedor is GOAT. How is losing to Fedor make Sylvia a hype especially when Sylvia was ranked top 10 for 4 years before that fight?

          Also, Gonzaga’s best win is against Cro Cop. He has lost to pretty much everyone whose name is worth mentioning.

          “that’s y randy took the fight in the first place”

          Umm…you must have heard that one interview with Dana where he disses Sylvia and Arlovski jsut to say that Fedor sucks.

  • shereko

    LOL He wasn’t a fighter? Funny… you’re at home writing that, but people that OWN the UFC considered him a fighter, people that specifically write on the topic consider him one, people that FOUGHT him consider him one… yet haters at home don’t… I DON’T consider him a good one but, he WAS a FIGHTER.

    • RonnieV

      Good points! A lot of guys in these comment boards are so much more knowledgable than the guys (journalists) that get paid to follow the sport, and the athletes themselves.

  • lawrensco

    This is a great article. The author nailed it.

    felt that Lesner had no business in the UFC. He came in just before the heavyweight division really started to establish itself, hence his belt. But the fact of the matter is, he went into the octagon and won fights. For that, he is a true fighter. And until any of us do it, we can’t sit here and say he wasn’t.

    Thanks for seeing your run for what it was Lesner.

    • RonnieV

      Heavyweight Division gets better every year, Lesnar was the best briefly, prior to that it was Arlovski, Sylvia, Big Nog, Fedor & Cro-Cop. Now it’s Velasquez, Dos Santos, and Overeem. The sport is evolving into better well-rounded MMA fighters. Think of how excited the UFC is that Brock is retiring, after Overeem, they know he is no longer a draw, and they no longer have to pay him big money. A couple years from now, we may think Overeem is a stiff. Btw, didn’t Chuck Liddell knock his ass out 8 years ago? lol Now the “Iceman” is an effin legend!

      • im gonna pull a repeated card on this article.

        If overeem and Liddell fought next PPV overeem would melt the ICEMAN, and thats even if they were in the same weight class still.

        • RonnieV

          Of course he would, Liddell is 42, 75 lbs less, and retired! 8 years ago, the ICEMAN knocked his out…. that’s all I’m saying.

  • BlackDog2009

    It’s true what ‘Iamroylo’ says… hardly anything is being said about Reem. He’s the one that deserves to be appaluded for effectively exposing Lesnar and he exposed Lesnar better and in a more decisive way than Cain did.

    Here’s Overeem, hasn’t been defeated since 2007, kicking ass back in Japan, K-1 dominant champ, Strikeforce HW champ that was never beaten for it, comes to UFC, and proves to DW and all other naysayers that he’s the real deal. That’s the guy I applaud, he’s the one who deserves to be talked about. He’s been in the sport for years, has been beaten, has evolved, has done his money and keeps hanging in there trying to leave a legitimate legacy. Whether he become UFC champ or not, it don’t matter, he’s the one (along with plenty other fighters like him) that I applaud.

    • I enjoyed how everyone looked over Overeem as if he was some push over. That dude is a monster, and I can’t say he will beat JDS cause he is awesome too, but he def deserves the title shot, your talkin bout a guy who even fedor wasn’t wanting to fight. But then again that was a lot of fedor’s mang. Fedor’s mang. Will be his demise, totally irrelevant, I know. But whatever

      • Lesnardo

        McMIke1983 and other Dana nuthuggers overlooked Overeem JUST BECAUSE he never fought in the UFC.

        To them it’s UFC or ****.

    • elguapo

      But if brock’s “not a fighter” then what’s to applaud about overeem beating him?

      • lawrensco

        Hahah Booya!

    • elguapo

      Also I’m reserving judgment on overeem until his next fight. Yes he was strike force champ but he rarely defended it, and certainly not against the calibre of fighter that he’s gonna get in the UFC.

      • he didnt say applaud Lesnar for beating Lesnar we all knew that was gonna happen. Especially if you have followed Overeem even before strikeforce. He applauded him because he as well as Cain, And Carwin, and even Couture and Mir (givin they did lose), exposed him Watch the fight with randy everytime he popped Lesnar, he clammed up and instead of fight he went to flight.

        • elguapo

          Yes I understand that too. But like you said, if randy, Mir, carwin and Cain have all exposed Brock then that’s it. He’s exposed. How can you expose something that was so obvious in the first place, especially if youre the fifth person to have done it.

  • Iamrozylo

    The UFC considers him a fighter for the money, fighters he faces consider him a fighter out of respect. If he was a fighter that new how to exhale (like most fighters) those body shots wouldn’t have done as much damage.

    • Yea so. BOOYA to you. Dork.

    • elguapo

      Seriously? Exhaling? Thats the one thing you could come up with to disprove him being a fighter? Jesus, most people on here talk about his zero stand up skills or fear of taking a punch, but exhaling? Plus those knees from overeem are gonna hurt regardless of any respiratory action.

    • RonnieV

      I don’t know man, those liver kicks hurt me just watching.


    1. Brock was great for the sport, hate it or love as most have said on here.

    2. Alistair Overeem is 100% on steroids, and that will someday be revealed. However, with that said – JDS will still defeat him to remain the champion!

    • Lesnardo

      “Alistair Overeem is 100% on steroids, and that will someday be revealed”

      What makes you think that he is 100% on steroids given that he never tested positive in his entire career.

      • Seriously? LOL


        I know friends at the gym who have juiced, and if you take it in cycles you can test clean easily. Just look at his photos in Pride, and look at how huge he is now. That does not come from Protein Shakes. Just like Nate Marquardt, if someone would have told you guys he was juicing you would have given this same response.

        • Lesnardo

          Innocent until proven guilty.

          THis is the thing with accusing Overeem of using steroids.

          About two years ago everyone said that Overeem is not fighting in the US (that is in SF) because he is afraid he is going to test positive under the more stringent US standards.

          Then after he starts fighting in the US, now those same people are saying that not getting caught doesn’t mean he doesn’t do drugs.

          So this is my thing. As long as his results come out clean, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I don’t doubt that there is some chance that he has taken roids at one point of his life, particularly given his ridiculous body. But he has never tested positive.

    • fitefan

      If Overeem is on roids, then Brock was taking double the dosage.

  • Iamrozylo

    I like JDS, but JDS is an elite stiller against a division of moderate strikers. It’ll be interesting to see his game plan against overeem.

    • Lesnardo


    • fitefan

      I like JDS but I don’t think he has a game plan other than punching.
      In the Nelson fight, Nelson took everything JDS had to offer. And JDS never changed his game plan, just kept punching in the third to a decision.

  • Iamrozylo

    Ya exhaling!! How many body shots have you taken in your life??

    • BOOYA! lol

      • elguapo

        What’s with all the booyaa-ing? And let’s not get onto all this “how many fights have you had” bs, the fact is none of know each other. I have my skills and experience in amateur boxing but then again I could be lying. I could be a 14 year old girl for all you know. My point was that exhaling was not gonna save Brock from those body shots, plus the whole exhaling thing is what you’re meant to do IF you see the shot coming in the first place.

  • elguapo

    I’ve never counted. I once took a football to the groin though, wish I’d exhaled then.

  • OK given his no stand up skills and lack of heart. His so called bad ass Wrestling record and what not, he still looked like a horrible average wrestler if not below average in the cage, he didnt even apply what he did know, think he has one legitimate (I could care less how judges scored it) takedown, against an exhausted Carwin.

    • elguapo

      I agree. That’s what I’ve been saying all along. Even if you are a world class wrestler, you still need at least a fundamental knowledge of other skills to set up your wrestling. Personally, I think Brock could’ve gotten away with zero BJJ skills, but you just have to know some stand up, even it’s just how to defend yourself. It’s like when you hear about these Olympic judoka’s fighting in Asia, you’d think their skills would be sick but they never get to show them cos they can’t set them up due to lack of their skills. I guess that’s why it’s called MIXED martial arts isn’t it?

      • I agree to an extent. Still think even if u were a bad ass wrestler, should be able to at the minimum dictate where the fight is gonna be standing or on the ground, but even if it is allegedley with his camp not doin full contact sparring, when u think about it the proof is there that could be true, cause he could cover up and go in for a takedown, the only takedowns he really got where from catching kicks. And u don’t have to have wrestling for that just good reflexes, and a small knowledge of wrestling like tripping or scooping.

  • Iamrozylo

    Exhaling wont help with groin hits.. LOL

  • Mario

    Everybody shut up now 🙂

    • tsszaltax

      LOL. Agreed. There was a question earlier, something like “Why are writers so hung up on this guy? Theres been 3 exact articles just like this asking us as fans to embrace what he did for the sport.” Heres why. Look at the amount of comments each and every one of those articles have produced. Love him or hate him, he draws a crowd. Crowds are attention and attention is money. Plain and simple.

      If all of us banded together and didnt make a single comment about anything to do with Lesnar, he will disappear forever, off the forums, off the articles, everything. Lets start. SSSSSHHHHHHH!

  • MikeMc1983

    How did I overlook overeem? He wasn’t part of any conversation I was in.

  • thai plum sauce

    He was a marketing ploy transplanted from WWE so that UFC could take away from WWE’s audience. He was just a burly guy with good wrestling skills but poor striking and submission. He wasn’t as “athletic” as his fans make him out to be. He lacked finesse when it came to foot movement, standup stance, BJJ, etc.

    …It’s a shame that cowardly Fedor didn’t want to enter the UFC after Pride collapsed. Fedor and his manager claim that contract negotiations didn’t go their way. Although that may be 1/2 true, Fedor knew his “invincible” aura wouldn’t last forever; he got exposed in Strikeforce.

  • maddawgmar

    The most stupid thing I’ve ever read. I am dumber for reading this. You can say that about any fighter. If Joe Frazier fought in the forties he would have never lost. If Muhammad Ali fought in the nineties he would never have been a champion. The greatest fighters are defind by the talent they beat during THIER era, not by what they would have done in another era. Take Rocky Marciano for example, the only Heavywieght champion to retire undefeated and still the champ, yet he is only considered the seventh best heavyweight of all time. Which is BS because he was so dominate over his competition, and even beat Joe Louis. It’s not his fault that the competition wasn’t nearly as talented as other eras. Lesnar couldn’t even dominate his own time. He shouldn’t even be considered a great. A champ, yes. But a great, not even close.

    P.S. Sorry for the Boxing references but the history is more vast and they were relevant.

  • mind you the guy almost died in 2008/9 and again recently had 12 inches of his colon removed…

    • maddawgmar

      He did not almost die. He had two bouts of diverticulitis. It is a common infection, not a disease. In very complicated cases, if the infection spreads to the abdominal cavity, could be fatal. This is rare. If this was the case with Lesnar he would not have came back so soon. Probably would still be out after his first bout. Don’t overplay the sickness card. He’s not the only one who came back from an infection.

  • fitefan

    I railroad this guy because he an overblown piece of fluff and I’m tired of reading it.
    He only used his fame/notoriety to enter the UFC because he thought he could beat Silvia. He called Silvia a mutant with webbed feat. Course Randy beat him to the punch. But Brock only enterd the UFC because he thought he could use his size advantage.
    As soon as his size meant nothing, and it wasn’t easy for him, he quit. Prolly the same reason he left the NFL. Nothing special about 6’3″ at 280 with extreme athletic ability in the NFL, it’s rather common. Without knowing for sure, I’d say that was a big reason for his lack of success there.

    Mir was Brock’s best performance. He gets full credit for both those fights, even tho he got subed in the first one.

    But lets stop with this “he beat Randy a legend” nonsense. Not a single one of you would give Vera at 230 equal credit if he beat Hughes ( another legend ) at 170.

    Randy is dangerous to anyone at any age, but let’s stop acting like it was an even match up.

    Glad to see the mojority of you aren’t wearing rose colored Brock glasses. The rest of you need come to your senses.
    Brock never was and never will be a fighter. He is a competitor only. It was an insulting desperate move on the UFC to promote him as such.

  • fador is gay!!!brock is a panocha big time he should of left hes camp and train with other fighters like gsp or dan hando or jon jones camp and lern 2 take a punch that was gay of him just sitting on the coner of the cage and giting punch

    • maratk

      If Fedor gay, you cocksucker.

      • TKD

        “If Fedor gay, you cocksucker.”

        All together now…


  • 1.Lesnar’s a seemingly extremely successfull businessman first and fighter secondly.
    2.If Lesnar’s not a figher than MMA is not a sport as he has recorded victories and quick ones at times over heralded opposition.
    3.It takes extreme courage for any fighter to enter the octagon and Brock seemingly has not avoided any challenge nor fighter to my knowledge.
    4.His retirement is spot on unlike Tito,Hughes and in boxing Tyson.

    • fitefan

      1. Is very true.

      2. Is nonsese. “heralded” opposition isn’t true opposition. When he finally faced true opposition he folded on the mat and quit. Mir is his crowning achivement. 2nd round victories aren’t ‘quick’ ones. Now Overeem finishing him in 2 minutes, now that’s quick.

      3. Brock has extreme ignorance of the sport, and over inflated sense of confidence due to his size and all the constant hype he is fed. If he had courage, he would finish his contract now that knows his size is nothing against a real fighter. But he isn’t. He’s quitting because he can’t bear to get hit again. He couldn’t even go to the press conference.

      4. He is quitting, not retiring. And it’s a bit late. He should have quit after the Cain beating. He even had an easy out. But no, he thought he had an easy victory over Overeem and a win there was the proverbial carrot in front of the donkey for a title fight.

      He’s a chump.

      • TKD

        #3 and #4 are so on the money! You said it perfectly!!

  • fitefan

    So, does the author of the article get a bonus for 100+ comments?

    • Lesnardo

      that was his intention. He wanted to say something so controversial that 100+ comments would be guaranteed.

      The number of hits per minute went up because of this article.

      “Brock could have been THE BEST!”

      “Heath Herring would have dominated the first UFC.”

  • TKD

    I think the author of this article should be TERMINATED!